http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_re_us/us_more_school
I hope you can copy and paste this if it doesn't show as a clickable link. I happened to see this pop up when my yahoo messenger refreshed.
Now I totally agree with OPTIONAL programs that allow students who are disadvantaged or who have no parents at home during the day to have a place to be which is safe or for additional learning opportunities if they are behind or want enrichment, but I do NOT in any way, shape or form agree with anything that would force ALL kids to go to school year round. I also may be in agreement with adding say 30 minutes total to each day, but not an hour or more, and definitely NOT any weekend days or adding more days to the year.
I only scanned the link here but it looks again just like people having some fit about how kids in other countries do things a different way and how they want US to do the same thing. Hello, that is another country. Why does it matter SO much that we have to be equal or better? I don't think that's necessary and I am SO glad I don't live in another country where they force kids to go to school from 7-5 just like work and not having a summer break and sometimes going on weekends. Kids are KIDS, school is a learning opportunity, not a JOB.
Just like the political agenda and religious agenda, if it ever comes down to public schools where *I* live being FORCED by government idiots into not letting kids have a summer break or adding 2 or 3 hours to the school day, I guess I will buy into homeschooling and my daughter will take all her classes ONLINE. She probably won't even be doing school more than 3 hours a day then, as well as not having to be exposed to all of the crap that goes along with Obama.... I highly doubt the successor is going to agree with a lot of this stuff anyway, and I hope any of the people who support it also get ousted when he goes.
[question posted by mommyboo]
responses and comments:
My children go to school year round, we live in California by the way. Do I agree with it? It's OK-but let me clarify a very crucial point of year round school. Year round school does NOT mean children have no vacation. Instead of giving the child 3 months off for summer, they are given 6 weeks. Likewise they have extended fall, winter, and spring breaks. Equivalency: my children attend the same amount of days as yours do, we merely have different vacation schedules. I cannot recall the amount of days is required per school year, but that is federal/nationwide. I think it's 180 days per year, but don't quote me on it. You had mentioned something that I had not thought of. Can you imagine the days where our elementary students will be attending school online? Online college was a revolutionary and educational breakthrough.....now picture our wee ones learning their ABC'c through forum communication in the online classroom. Strange..... I don't see how children will ever be forced to go to weekend school, and surely they aren't going to restructure the school day as making it 10 hours a day. Those just can't be done. People would surely overthrow the government if that was even thought of. [princess07031980]
OK, yes for this particular subject I was hired, it was a classified application-which is the loop hole I suppose. Certified means you have to have the degree. But the thing is is that it is still earning a letter grade, and I still had the potential to pass or fail a student. Yes, I believe I am good at writing. I had an interview with 3 women- 1 administration personel of the school, as well as 2 school board members. I was unable to answer a lot of their questions, and had come unprepared for the interview because, obviously this is a huge jump for me career-wise, and I lacked tremendous experience. Maybe they were swooned that I was a degree-in-progress, and I was going in exactly the direction they needed. Could anyone do it? Sure. But one thing I take in assurance is that my children's teachers are certified-their education is NOT fabricated. They are learning along side an algorithm and syllabus declared standard, whith teachers of nothing less than the minimal requirement. What am I saying? Being in the hands of uncertified can be harmful and potentially detramental to the student's learning experience. An example: Let's say you are going to the doctor for a random visit, but instead of the doctor coming to take a look at your illness, his assistant comes in dressed like a doctor, but officially has no training beyond 6 or 7 college classes. Well, you are not having surgery or delivering a baby, so this guy must be ok then right? You are made aware that he is holds no degree, but when you ask how qualified he is really is, he replies, "It's ok-I'm good at this." Well, as mothers, we surely know how to dress a wound, administer medicine, maybe even give stitches in an emergency situation. But we are not doctors, and it doesn't take much of an incident for us to call upon a doctor, because we DON'T know a lot about how to care for our children medically, and we don't mess around when it comes to the health and safety of our kids. I am not saying that non-certified teachers are not interested in the well-being of the kids. But when you place an uncertified person in the shoes as a teacher, how is that person going to give the best education to those students? They can't..... It is hit and miss with charter schools, and the tangible quality education they can recieve. I mean they will learn something, right? I guess I just expect my children to thrive in every way possible. Charter schools are necessary, though, in manys. They accomodate children and teens like the ones you mentioned-children who are bullied and or picked on at school. Children who missed a lot of school because of an illness or family issues. But the majority of kids that end up in these schools (statisitcs show-) that these kids have been removed from public school, or quit, because they were not interested in applying themselves with structure and discipline and in turn went on to an alternative school because not nearly as much was required of them. That or these are the kids under the "die hard" parents-the parents that have bad things to say about the schooling and staff of public schools. So they pull their kids out of public school, and put them in independent schools. Sure they may have a better time in school, getting more personal attention and their grades may be better. (And sometimes that is the problem solved right there.) But in all reality, the demands are not being met, so again, it's a cop-out for the parents too. I learned all this both from my college schooling (which guess what?!?! I took 8 of my classes on University of Phoenix Online!) and talking with other parents and learning how this particular school I had applied for worked. I took the biggest opportunity by applying for this job-I inquired of it while actually wanting to apply for the librarian position, so I could at least get my foot in the door wit the school. When I found out I could be hired much further up the scale, I of course jumped on it! Why not, I get to be a teacher long before my degree is completed! Then I realized how important that degree is to do this job-classified or not. It wasn't for me in the end, becuase I didn't feel right having children's educations in my hand when I ultimately was not qualified to teach them anything by the state of California. Sorry for the ramble.....LOL And I live in Calaveras County. [princess07031980]
Your link didn't work but here it is: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_re_us/us_more_school I don't like this idea very much either. We live in a rural area and some kids don't get home from school until almost 5:00 due to the long bus ride with frequent stops. Shortening or eliminating summer vacations does nothing for morale. Kids need a break and they need time for other things...sports and other favorite activities. [spalladino]
I totally agree. I actually have some friends whose kids are bussed to a parent choice school in another district, and so the kids are on the bus for almost 50 minutes each way. Add to that a school start time of 8:45 AM and an end time of 3:30ish and you have kids who have to get up at 6:30 so they can catch a bus at 7:50 and they don't get home till almost 4:30 - and this school gives a lot of extra work. They don't get to play or hang out with friends, they are doing homework until dinner and after dinner they have to shower and go to bed because 6:30 comes too early... One thing that I would concede on if the schools all added ONE extra hour to the school day would be this: NO HOMEWORK. If they added an additional hour to the day, I'd specify that extra hour would be directed as time for kids to complete ALL assignments given for the day. That way if they are not getting home until 4:45 PM, at least they were home free and could go play immediately! I am also not against having teachers, tutors, or other administrative staff on site later or during times when school is traditionally closed in order to service underprivelaged kids, english language learners, or children who are not old enough to be latchkey for hours but too old for daycare (say 9,10,11) AND they need to catch up. I don't think it's a horrible thing to use state or federal funds to create OPPORTUNITIES for people if they want to take advantage of them, but I do not think it is fair to make it a blanket thing that EVERYBODY has to comply with. My son and my older daughter had to attend summer school a few times in order to make up credits, and in her case, she took a class or two early to free up space in her senior year. To me, summer school programs exist to help kids make up credits if they failed, or for enrichment - so you could take a regular level or college level course in the summer and then either have it out of the way or continue to the next level when you went back to school. I don't think it should be used as an attempt to force ALL kids to continue going to school! I never attended summer school, I never had to. I never failed anything and if I wanted enrichment programs, there were always plenty of those during the regular school year to get involved in. [mommyboo]
Maybe kids do so poorly in the American school system because of the tweaked-for-sensitivity, America-is-evil apologist liberal rhetoric they're being taught. Maybe if they stuck with subjects like TRUE history, TRUE science and math, kids would be fine. And maybe, just maybe, a lot of these union-loyal teachers aren't doing the children a bit of good. Fussin' about pay raises, pushing opinion on children, making sure to ONLY act in the most uber-politically correct way imaginable, and never wavering from the groupthink philosophy. It seems as if a lot is being done in the teaching community to toy with the cirriculum until it's just a dull sheet that covers everyone and caters to no one. You don't solve those problems by forcing kids to spend MORE time dealing with it. Jeez. Is that the answer for everything? We're in debt, so let's spend another trillion! Medicare has billions lost in waste because the government can't run it, so let's have government run everything! Now the quadrupling down on failure with kids? I don't get it. [matersfish]
Well... NCLB is partially to blame for some problems I can see. The schools lose more points if a child who is struggling falls further behind than the points they gain if they get an average/proficient child ahead to exceptional. Because of this, the biggest focus is on the kids who are having the most trouble, leaving the ones who are proficient or advanced at a bit of a loss, since you cannot really advance the class of 30 students to something better if you still have 6 students who don't know what their name is.... I volunteer at my daughter's school, and so far what I have seen of the curriculum is excellent. She has a good teacher and school is fun, she is doing things that are consistent with K/1 standards for the end of the year. Budget crises are getting worse, and at the beginning of the year, there were 40 kids in the class. We have a long term sub now so there are 3 kindergarten classes, 2 morning and 1 afternoon, and the class is down to about 27 students. It's manageable, certainly much improved from 40 but it's still 7 more than they told me when I registered in March. Sometimes I want to laugh, you know the guy who touched things and turned them into gold? Well everything this government touches turns into a pile of.... you know what! [mommyboo]
I'm actually in favor of year round school. The only reason kids get summers off in the first place is because most people were farmers way back when and kids lose so much information over the summer break. I don't see a practical need for 12 weeks of vacation. I would send my kids to school year round in a heartbeat if I could. American school kids do much more poorly in nearly every subject than their counterparts in other countries and I think we need to get more serious about education. [sndcain36]
You will still have a choice if your district goes to year round school. You can always home school or go private if you can afford it... American kids score worse on nearly every single subject than their peers in other countries, so while you personally may not have lost anything, our kids as a group aren't being served by our current system and several things need to change. [sndcain36]
Ya lets just keep it like it is! All the other countries go to school for way more a days and spend more hours there! Maybe that's why our pampered kids are so dumb! The rest of the world is running way in front of us in education and they give healthcare to their people! Lets keep the status quo and hurry to that 3rd world status we are racing to! wink tdemex [tdemex]
I would venture to say it's more about how education now caters to NOBODY rather than we don't spend enough time on it. It is also - let's face it - sometimes uninteresting to students. Think of something you really do NOT enjoy. Then think of the person you least want to see and listen to for 50 minutes. Then think of the worst assignment you'd have to do with that subject you don't enjoy, after listening to that person you never wanted to see again. Combine that and spoon feed it to several million kids. Rinse, repeat. I'm not saying it's like that for EVERY kid, it certainly isn't, but there are a lot of kids who feel that way. Some kids are visual learners, they have to SEE a concept to get it. Some kids are auditory learners, they have to hear about a concept to get it. Some kids learn only by hands-on or doing something with the information in order to get it. Some kids have language barriers and they may APPEAR dumb but they aren't, they know exactly what you're talking about but they don't have the english equivalent to tell you they know, so they sit there and just look at you. All we have to do is figure out how to combine all those things into teaching. If that could be managed, you could teach a concept quickly to a whole class of students and they'd ALL get it. If you found a way to make it fun, they'd enjoy it even more and not be able to wait for the next concept. Why aren't we doing something like this? It wouldn't take ANY extra time, just extra support staff so you could split the kids into groups. I think that would be a much better use of taxpayer dollars for education than trying to make kids stay at school more hours or more days or both. Length of time makes little difference. [mommyboo]
I don't think they should take away summer vacation. That's what kids look forward to when their in school. How many kid would give up and just start slaking off if they had to go all year round? Alot!!! Summer vacation is what keeps them from going crazy. [zeromidget2669]
Yep, I happen to agree with you. I see someone or someones around these parts disliked my opinion because my rating here in this topic went down but what can I say, they just probably figure if THEIR kids have to go to more school, then my kids should too just because. Just because is a crappy reason lol. I also do agree there may be more drop outs, more absences, and of course parents pulling kids out for independent study, which is another option. I do like the curriculum, I just don't think more time or days need to be spent. To me it would just be a waste of time. When I worked, I could do 8 hours of work in about 5 or 6 hours. It's what I try to teach my kids. Buckle down, get it done. The faster you finish up, the faster you can get back to the fun kid stuff you deserve to be doing. [mommyboo]
My daughter has already started the long days of school. she is there from 730 till 4 which is two more hours a day. It took her about a week to adjust to it but she is doing well. As for summer vacation well myself even as a child thought it was too long, we got bored in the middle of the summer. My parents did plenty of things with us during the summer months but it was still boring. Your mind begins to fry. I would not extend elementry schools by that much time but definately high school. It will help to prepare them for work when they get out of school. I would agree with one or another but not both of them. I would question if they would have homework on top of it. During the winter when it gets dark early how will they gaurantee the safety of the students. I think that from the time I was a child compared to the children now, that we as parents took it way to far and hand fed our children which has basically made up a generation of lazy spoiled bratz. We took it from one extreme to the next and now in many households the children runs the home not the parent. Before any of you get all huffy and puffy I am not saying all I am though saying many. If you do not have or had teenagers please do not try to tell me that I am wrong. This generation of children that are now young adults are very immature and lazy for the most part. Imagine they will be taking care of us in our old age tsk tsk. [grammasnook]
LOL! I never got bored. I don't have any idea how anybody EVER does. If there isn't stuff you HAVE to do, there is stuff you WANT to do, and never enough time in which to do it, get it done, enjoy it to the fullest. Take me for example. When I was a kid, I was a voracious reader. I still love to read. I also did a lot of sports. I worked part time as a teen. I did a LOT of babysitting. These days? I have kids and a house and a husband. I have errands, I'm taking a class, I volunteer at my daughter's school, I have friends, activities, whatnot. I have PLENTY of things to do. And I like facebook... and mylot, and gaming. And I still like to read... and watch tv, and movies, and scrapbook, and go to the gym.... Anyway, the point is, I believe people who get bored do it to themselves. There are plenty of things to do to entertain yourself. Plenty of opportunities which are even free or low cost. Plenty of fun stuff, not so fun stuff, and downright NON fun stuff, regardless there is never a reason for boredom. I hate the word. I don't believe in homework at all, not assigned homework. I do believe in kids bringing home things they did not finish at school, because completing your work is important. After 6 hours in school though, I do NOT think it's okay to expect kids to do another HOUR, much less all the THREE and FOUR hours I hear people talking about. Even an hour seems too much, unless it is a major project and your student is a junior or senior in HIGH SCHOOL. This three and four hours I hear about? Get this.... it's like people with second graders. SECOND GRADERS. When my daughter is in 2nd grade, the most I will expect is stuff she did not finish in school, which in my opinion should only add up to 20 minutes at the MOST. Second graders are what.... SEVEN YEARS OLD? Sorry but I don't want my seven year old sitting there doing three hours of homework a night. If she is, then what was the point of the 6 hours at school? Even my husband doesn't regularly work more than 9 hours a day, much less would he BRING IT HOME. I do agree with you that a lot of teens are lazy. They feel entitled, like they don't have to do anything but will suddenly have a 6 figure income job, an ipod, a nice cell phone, a mercedes... need I say more? That in itself IS a problem, one I' not sure how to approach except to tell them that the people who have such things worked for it and did a lot of crappy things THEY aren't willing to do, which is why THEY don't have those things. I think a lot of cause and effect is still lost on teens and they won't see the connections until they are in their early 20s. Fortunately a lot of them are going to college during that time or working full time, and they learn, it just takes awhile. It bothers me because I have some teenagers, and their attitudes toward life are SO different than the attitudes my hubby and I had when we were 16, 17, 18. We knew we could only depend on ourselves and if we wanted to make it, WE had to do everything. So we did. The kids? I don't know where that shorted out. It's like they 'get' part of it but then they regress again. [mommyboo]
I actually have mixed feelings on this one. First off, teachers do not have an easy job as many think. Their jobs are not just school hours. They actually have to prepare the stuff they're teaching for one thing. Then there are homeworks that were handed in to go through & grade, as well as exams to put together, & grade afterwards. All that is not done in the classroom, but while they are home at night & during the weekends. That is why teachers' salaries are on the generous side. Adding extra hours to the school day & eliminating summer vacation will mean having to pay teachers, & perhaps even school administrators, for the extra hours they are needed for. Furthermore, the present ten months, usually from the beginning of September to near the end of June is a lot on a teacher. By the time June rolls around, quite a few teachers are usually 'ready for the loony bin (as one friend who teaches in a public school put it). I have ideas on ways around the strain it puts on the teaching faculty, but there's no way around the extra need to increase school budgets. This means taxes will end up increasing to pay for the extra hours, & perhaps for extra supplies needed. At the same time, assuming that a good plan can be implemented, it would be somewhat of a relief for parents who need to work year round, being that they won't need to worry about babysitters. As for older kids, it may help keep them out of trouble. Will it also help the kids? It is hard to say, becuase they do need that play time. Also, the increased information that the kids get taught may or may not be the best thing either. It may turn out to be an information overload. [KrazyKlingon]
I believe that a backelor's degree is sufficient to get a teaching certificate to teach the younger children. All that a master's gets you - if that - is an extra differential added to your paycheck. It seems that you got me as to why all those courses are needed if you want to stay within that younger age group. Uh - it seems that you stumped a Klingon shocked However, you do need a master's to teach at a college, & a doctorate to teach at a university. However, quite often, at a university, teaching is not the highest priority. It's getting research contracts, & doing that research. Ironically, you usually don't need a teaching certificate to teach at the college level. [KrazyKlingon]
I worked at a year round school for 3 years. I worked in an after-school care program at the school. It was a place for the kids that the parents had to pay for so their kids weren't home alone or wandering the streets. The kids did not have time to be kids. They spent all their time studying. They got three weeks off every 12 weeks, plus Christmas break...excuse me "Holiday" break. The whole school also only got three weeks off in the summer. It wasn't fair to the kids, keeping them in school so much longer than the other kids in the neighborhood. They would wonder why "Sue" got to go spend Wednesday night at "Cindy's" house in June and they had to go to school. Plus it costs more money...our money. They need some way to cool the school down in the summer. AC costs alot. Plus lights, water, cooking breakfast and lunch. If they just keep the kids there longer during the day, would they feed them dinner too? I mean, being there so long with no snack or anything to hold them till dinner, I would want the school to give them something. Most after-school programs give kids a snack when they walk in the door. Would the school do it too? Of course that would also be more tax dollars. Also they would need to heat/cool the school, spend more on electricity, ect. ect. I thought he was supposed to REDUCE taxes. Most of these ideas are taking money I don't have out of my pocket. I'm with you on this. If this goes through, I'll teach my kids at home...when I finally have kids. I'm in college to be a teacher now. I'll do a better job than the schools anyway. [playwright82]
I think about that too... the extra cost in maintaining everything year round. It is by no means inexpensive to run a school. My daughter's school isn't even a very LARGE school, but there is a decent sized support staff. They have regular groundskeepers and custodians, there are proctors and cafeteria workers, English/Spanish translators and support staff for special education. This school did get an allotment of funds for after school tutoring, and they have a gifted type of program but as far as I'm aware, the after school tutoring is strictly being used to help the kids who are falling behind or are already below average and only going down. The gifted program I think does not include kindergarten. Electricity and gas is expensive, heating and air conditioning is a daily thing. Bus transpo too, for a lot of kids. That means you have maintenance and gas for the bus and bus drivers and sometimes support staff. The school lost their dedicated PE teacher because they lost funding for it. Tell me there isn't something WRONG with that! Obama is sitting there saying 'kids should be in school more' yet the schools cannot even reliably keep a PE teacher on staff during a regular school year because THERE ARE NO FUNDS FOR IT. We SHARE a vice principal with another school! The music teacher gets one day a week per grade and then they must try and do a music program that fits each grade - but there may be more than 100 kids from each grade! It's just very frustrating. And sadly enough, this school is doing better than other elementaries in the district. If we are being shorted and squeezed that much, what is happening with other schools? Do they even have chalk or dry erase markers for their boards? Do they have enough paper for copies? Are there books for each student? It's a nightmare, wondering about those things which should be certainties. I rant about the taxes because I cannot see a single good thing all this 'government stealing' is doing. I wish they were obligated to show in black and white on a graph with explanations EXACTLY where each of our taxpayer dollars goes. THEN I think we as taxpayers should have the right to VOTE whether or not we want OUR money going to those things, and if we disagree, WE should get to decide where that money gets spent, and the government should have to spend every cent where we want it spent. For instance, I do not want taxpayer dollars being wasted on signs proclaiming that 'the economic stimulus is working'. Seriously, they just wasted 30K on a stupid sign half the population can't even read because they are illiterate or don't speak English! The rest of us? WE DIDN'T WANT OUR MONEY WASTED ON A DAMN SIGN! thumbdown [mommyboo]
I think this is a great idea and have thought so for a long time. I remember being in high school and elementary school and just focusing on the months where I could goof off and do nothing, and those months of goofing off led a lot of the stuff I had learned that year to disappear from my mind. And the social anxiety for me during my middle school years was almost too much to bear, because being away for 2-3 months made me wish that perhaps this year would be different, only to go back and realize that everyone, including myself was the same. My point is that there really is no reason for a child to have so many MONTHS without any education required. It also teaches them a great lesson in preparation for adulthood, when we have to grow up and get a job, we don't get a summer break, we have to work year round to support ourselves and survive. I am not saying that kids should not have time to goof off, but we need to keep the children of today as educated as we can, if they don't learn, then where will this country be in 10 or 20 years? Your final comment was awfully unnecessary though, this is an issue where the children of today's best interest is being discussed, not everyone is going to agree with you, but such petty statements that refute any idea that is different than yours just makes you seem closeminded. [spicysweetie21]
Well, because I am not petty and closed minded, I chose to rate you positively even though you disagree with me. That isn't the issue, and it's fine if you disagree, but you need to realize that perhaps we come from two different backgrounds. I dislike being lumped in with 'a group' just because 9 out of 10 people have trouble in school or 'lose' what they learned over the summer. If it doesn't apply to me, why the heck would I have to conform? That is really what this is about, giving options, not orders. As far as my comment about Obama's successor, what I'm hoping is that the next person actually has the best interests of EVERYBODY at heart, not some blanket idea that everybody is the same and everybody will benefit from one size fits all campaign of 'you WILL do it this way and this way only'. I have stated repeatedly in this thread that I am totally FOR options! Choices! Sure, offer year round school at SOME schools in each district, or offer it as a choice at all schools - but a choice, not mandatory. I'm sorry, I just bristle when someone says 'you HAVE to do this' when there is no shred of evidence why I HAVE to. I dont' do anything 'just because someone else does' or 'because you're supposed to'. I do things because I want to, because it makes sense to me, because it benefits me, my kids, my family, my friends, etc. Those are the only reasons I do things. If you tell me I have to, that's the first reason I won't. I'm sorry that your experience in school was negative, and I'm sorry that you were anxious because of the time you were off, but not everybody's situation is like yours. Some people work or travel in the summer, go to camp, go on vacation. Some things are specifically planned with that time in mind. My daughter takes swimming lessons in the summer and we also do a lot of activities with friends. This coming summer she may even be able to go to a summer day camp at a new park, and since she now has friends in the neighborhood, they'd all get to see each other every day there and do games and crafts, run and play, and even learn some cool new things. I also think you are confusing being out of school with 'no education'. There is still plenty of learning going on, but it is not book learning, rote learning, sitting in class listening to a teacher learning. There is little to no paperwork but plenty of information out there being added via experiences. As an adult, I can tell you that the majority of what has helped me is internal motivation, persistence, and confidence. You can't teach those things, you have them or you don't. You can learn them but you have to care and you have to want them. School did not 'prepare me' for a job. I got part time jobs as a teen because I knew I'd need the experience in order to land and keep a full time job. I needed the job initially to put aside and save money to support myself. After I was on my own, it was just necessary to continue supporting myself, and the goal of course is to continue up through the ranks, get a better job, get more money. I am extremely grateful looking back that I had those summers to work part time, to goof off with friends, to experience life. I am grateful that I was able to get my work done in school so I had after school time to play with my siblings, my friends, hang out with my parents, read, run around, etc. When I got older I was grateful for that time to earn my own money, to participate in sports, music, drama, scouts, stuff like that. I would never wish I could look back and say 'yay, I spent all that time in school'. You cannot MAKE or FORCE anybody to learn. You can put opportunities out there but only some people will take them. The key here is to encourage opportunities and make them available to the greatest amount of people, not FORCE people to take advantage of them. If you can convince people to care, you've done 90% of the job, but again, it just won't apply to some people. There may be an excellent English language learners program at my daughter's school but we don't fall in that group, so why should someone beat me over the head trying to get me to get involved? I'm trying to get you to see an example of why I believe in choice and not making EVERYBODY do it. Do you honestly think EVERYBODY should have to be included in a program or way of doing something that isn't going to benefit them because they don't need it? [mommyboo]
I agree with it. Those kids in those schools go more days than we do. Alot more days in a school year. Which means they are learning more and doing better than we are. We spend more money per student than those countries. Yet they do better on their scores than we do. WHy? Becuase they go more days. They learn more. It is a global economy and if our children want to be able to compete with these other children for job than they are going to have to be just as educated as they are. Our education system is failing. We need changes. I say yes....addd more days...yes add more hours. It is time we get serious about our childrens education and their future. Want them to have a good life? Then they need the best education that can be offered. If they change the rules then it will effect everyone....in every school. I virtual school my son and if they increase the number of hours and days it will effect him too. I may not agree with Obama often...but on this one he is right. [lilwonders456]
LOL! If the school district changed to a year round schedule, I'd put my son and daughter in a different school district. We talked about the issues associated with it because all of our schools start at different times because in order to save money, the district has to use the same buses. They simply don't have enough funding to get more buses and more bus drivers to service all the schools. They sent home a survey asking parents if we wanted to switch to be on the same schedule as another district - and this district did year round. The majority - at least 82% of the parents polled said absolutely not. This was at the high school level. I don't doubt that a lot of the high schoolers had input, but I don't blame them. My son has been trying to get a job every summer for the last two years. He landed one for about a month last summer but it was very temporary. If you have 2 or 3 months off, you have time to get a part time job and work it with reliability. You can even work full time during those months, and drop down to part time and receive work experience credit from high school when school begins again. In order to do that though, you need to have a few hours each afternoon/early evening available to work, and you have to keep your grades at C or above to receive credit or your work experience teacher can recommend you quit. Anyway, if kids do not get that break, no employer is going to hire them, even part time. If kids have to go to school for 8 hours a day, there's definitely no time for a part time job. If you have never worked any job by the time you graduate, it is hard to get your foot in the door, even with a diploma, and even if your transcripts read mostly As. I worked part time in high school and I also did sports. Those things were integral to my sanity while in high school. I'm sure a lot of my friends felt the same way. Without those opportunites and the time in which to do them, we'd all be burned out, long before we should have been. There really needs to be a balance or you get burned out, and kids these days get burned out and bored much faster than my generation ever did. I don't wonder why, I know it's because we had more of a balance. Taking it away is going to wreak havoc we have never seen before. High school drop out rate? I see it skyrocketing. [mommyboo]
I cant say that I agree with this either. I think that kids need a break. The drop out levels are already high, and i think that forcing children to go all year round would increase the percentages exponentially. They will get burned out and I believe will become more of a problem. while its true that our grades as a nation are not quite as high as some of our counterparts, is it that they go all year-round or is it that their curriculum is better set up and better taught then ours? Maybe before jumping to the extreme of year round schooling we should be a little more strict about class sizes, curriculum content, and style of teaching, and they teachers themselves. Maybe its time for parents to become more involved and to reward the students for doing their best, whether it is "A" material or not. I dont think that we have exhausted all of our other possible solutions. Besides, summer break isn't just about having time off from school, its about friendships and adventures, sleeping late and cartoons. Summer break is the essence of childhood, getting to play and have a good time with friends without worry. It seems a little hypocritical to take something away from our kids, that we had and enjoyed when we were young. Honestly, I have some great memories about summer vacations, about the time spent with family and friends that I wouldn't trade for anything. Kids are not little or young for ever,they grow, get jobs, go to college or maybe go the prision. Why should we hurry that along? Why cant we allow them more than six weeks for summer vacation? Is it that it would be better for them or easier for us as adults? I am all for day camps, and such things of that nature, but those are optional. If they really want to help why not give them free day camps for those who need them, where the children have the opportunity to participate in sports and art and music, or other cultural activities not staring at a black board all day. Honestly speaking, for those of us who are stuck in the office all day, no honest person can deny that there times when you fell more like a caged lab rat running your little wheel all day that we could just scream. Now we are adults and sometimes that feeling is to strong to bear and we need a break. Now imagine your ten years old with all that energy being couped up like that, I would be miserable. Lets not take from our children what little bit of time they have during the summer to be themselves and have their childhood adventures. They will be adults soon enough and I would not deny them the opportunity to look back at the memories of swimming holes, bike riding, cartoons and sports. I'm sure any adult would say sometimes it is nice to revistit those days and everyonce in a while we wish we could back and have just one summer like that again. [amandakringle]
Maybe before jumping to the extreme of year round schooling we should be a little more strict about class sizes, curriculum content, and style of teaching, and they teachers themselves. Maybe its time for parents to become more involved and to reward the students for doing their best, whether it is "A" material or not. I love that you said this! If we reduced class sides, hired teacher's aides and other support staff and also encouraged parents or other community members (older kids, grandparents) to volunteer, it would help TONS. I can see those as positive ways to improve the quality of education. Adding more hours or days? That is not positive, not from a child's standpoint and not from a parent's standpoint either, at least not my own. Even when my son was struggling and he had to go to summer school, I wouldn't have wanted him to go to school year round and only have 2 weeks off at a time. I tried to encourage him to apply himself DURING the school year so that break would feel well earned, which I think it is. Summers for us involved the older kids often traveling to visit extended family, and with the expense of flying as well as knowing we needed at least 2 weeks when they were smaller to get back on 'school schedule', they definitely needed at least a month of time off, if not longer in a block. I wonder sometimes too if in other countries, the parents themselves are more serious about education ie starting to show their kids concepts early and having fun with their kids when they are babies and toddlers. That is a great time to introduce things, shapes, colors, letters, numbers, common things, and then you just build on it. I think one of the problems in this country is that a lot of parents either don't do that, or they don't send their kids to preschool, or they are not involved. I thought it was very important to help prepare my daughter for social things, and then in turn to help prepare her for preschool, then to help prepare her for school. Those things piggyback on each other and if you don't do one of them, you set your child up for problems. I also like to have a lot of free time for her though, because play really IS a child's 'work'. Roleplay and mimicking behaviors, playing with friends, talking about her day, drawing, painting, coloring etc. I think of all the things that kids do during summer break and it's all stuff that you cannot do any more as an adult. You can't just sleep in whenever, get up, stay in your jammies all day, watch tv all day, and eat cereal out of a box. You can't just decide the next day to call up 4 of your friends and drag the tent out of the garage and set it up in the backyard and get your flashlights and scary books, a picnic basket of goodies, and have a campout on the spur of the moment. You can't just go down to the local skating rink in the middle of the day and skate for 3 hours and then go home and take your dog down to the creek and throw a stick for another hour. Those are examples of things that really only kids can do, and there is so much joy in it, so many rich memories later when they are adults and dreaming of taking time off work to take their little girl and boy camping someday... I wouldn't trade any of my memories either and I am bound and determined to make sure my daughter has the same sorts of memories to share with her children down the road when she grows up. [mommyboo]
i am all for kids going to school all year round. i mean seriously these kids spend more time out of school then they do in school anyway. what a waste of time. They need more education to keep up with the way the world is growing and moving forward into the future. I don't see anything wrong with our children having more school. i am all for whatever it takes to help our children become who the want to be. and if that is no summers at home doing nothing but watching tv and getting fat, i say go for it. i don't know if i would want longer school days and shool all year, but like i said, i am on the side of the chilren getting more eduation. [34momma]
But why do you equate more time spent with a BETTER EDUCATION? I don't get that. I do not at all equate more days and more hours with better. Quality can be improved without extending the amount of time. It feels like a waste of time to spend extra time and not see any results, which is what I fear is already happening. There is a lot of waste in our school systems, frankly speaking. The only way to improve the quality is to curb the waste, all of it, and put that money into QUALITY, not quantity. We are now serving NOBODY rather than everybody with this one-size-fits-all approach. Remember when I told you I was so worried about my daughter starting kindergarten? I had been told when I registered her that she would have 20 or 21 students in her class, a teacher, and an aide. I had been told that they followed the state standards and what they were, that the kids would get at least one day of PE per week, that they had a music teacher, etc etc. Imagine my surprise when the first day there were 40 kids in the class. They now have 27 which is better but still not optimal. The school has no PE teacher any more, and kindergarten doesn't really participate in PE anyway. I have researched the standards for kindergarten and thank goodness we do enough other physical activity that if she has to do a state standard test, she'll be able to pass it. She goes to school 4 hours a day. She is FIVE. We have to get up at 6 am in order to be to school by 7:10. Recently the teachers finished assessing kids. I don't mean to sound snotty but she knows everything already. There is actually a good chunk of the kids who know most of the standards already. These same kids, like my daughter, do a lot of extra curricular things that we pay for separately, not related to the school. I don't want any of us penalized suddenly because they decide kindergarteners now need to go a full day. I specifically decided on this school over the montessori school BECAUSE kindergarten was only a half day. I'm not going to complain about first grade, I know that's a full day, but that's also why I put her in morning kindergarten - to give her (*and me) a whole year to get used to getting up and there so early. I do look at the standards and I know what she needs to know by the end of the year. I do some things at home with her but it's at our discretion and optional and fun, not like 'extra school'. It's more or less if she wants to, if we have time. I like having flexibility. Anyway, while I certainly agree that we need to improve the quality of education and figure out how to meet the needs of different levels of students who are all in the same class, to me that does not equal extending the school day or the school year. There are SOME kids who may benefit from that, and I'm not saying don't do it for those kids, but I am not for forcing everybody into it. [mommyboo]
The link didn't work for me so please tell me more about it. Has President Obama proposed such a thing as taking away summer vacations? I thought each school district decided on their own schedule as long as they have the required number of days per school year. I know each year I hear of schools is different states getting out and going back either much earlier or much later than the kids in my area do. Our schools start usually in the last week of August, with some not starting until the first week of September and they get out in early June. The schedules can vary depending on how much snow and other bad weather we have during the winter, forcing cancellations and abbreviated school days. I think it's VERY important that our kids' education is equal to or better than that of kids in other countries! Do you want them to be inferior to the rest of the world once they're adults? You called school a "learning opportunity" but it shouldn't be optional so in a way it IS a "job". It's what will determine their future. You stated that if you home schooled your daughter she'd probably do no more than 3 hours of school and in a later post you said you don't believe in homework. I really don't see how it would be possible for anyone to learn all the things they need to know before going on to college or out in the world in just three hours per day with no homework! I agree kids, like adults, need a vacation and some time just to have fun but they also need to learn life is more than fun and games. Annie [anniepa]
I see you didn't get to reading this yet, because I'm sure you have something to say. The three hours I gave you was an idea, an average. Nobody keeps tabs of how long college students taking online courses spend online working on their courses, at least not that I have heard. If I spend 6 hours at school or 6 hours working on online courses, heck if I'm going to spend additional time on top of that doing other things. I would bundle my work in with that 6 hours - if you want to split it, that's 3 hours spent learning/reviewing material for the class online, 3 hours completing the practice or work/assignments relating to that information. I don't believe in homework, Annie. Not in addition to the practice given in school to learn and demonstrate that you understand a concept. There is a LOT of useless busywork and repetition given because some idiot upstairs believes ALL kids need that. ALL kids don't. SOME do. That is why I keep saying that education needs to be tailored to fit different groups of kids. If I could complete my learning and work in 3 hours, then I don't want to have to sit there 3 additional hours because SOMEONE ELSE CAN'T. It is not MY fault that another person can't, and damned if I'm going to be punished, penalized, or held back or forced to do extra practice because they can't. I am not trying to come off as a jerk here, but if you have kids, don't you notice that they are different? As far as my older kids? I do think they'd have benefitted from some of these programs. Would I want them to go to school longer or more days? Not necessarily but they might have benefitted. My youngest daughter? I don't think she would benefit because she doesn't need more busywork. If you already know something, wouldn't it annoy you to have someone tell you that you have to keep practicing it for another hour because other people in your class were still doing it? I'm sure you'd get sick of it after awhile and you'd try to come up with ideas to try to get away. [mommyboo]
Alot of kids, teens, and young adults are nothing but ANIMALS. If you don't believe it watch some video posts on YouTube or any viral video site, and see for yourself. During the summer when school's out, and both parents are at work, these sub humans run wild. So let them stay in school all year and off the streets, otherwise send them to foreign and domestic prison camps to straighten them out. [xsinner4now]
Like I said, take these violent "kids" into your home or let your family hang out with them and lets see you long you last. Until then, lay off the drugs. [xsinner4now]
It seems to me that the whole year around schooling is another way for the government through teachers to brainwash the kids even more. It also takes away from the time the kids get to spend at home although there are parents that like the idea of getting rid of their kids more often and for longer periods, but then they really need to evaluate their job as a parent. Although I totally support homeschooling for those parents capable of teaching their kids, I have started wondering why more parents are not fighting for the proper teaching conditions rather than just pulling their kids out of schools all the time. It seems kind of like ignoring the problem...maybe I'm not seeing it right but I was just wondering. !!Happy Halloween!! ~~AT PEACE WITHIN~~ **STAND STRONG IN YOUR BELIEFS** [twoey68]
Thanks for posting, twoey happy. I never thought about the brainwashing aspect, but fortunately the schools I deal with don't seem to go much in that direction. I was able to object to any political agendas by stating I was going to excuse my daughter from anything of that nature - but her teacher cooperated even more by stating she wasn't even going to alter the day at all OR play any political speech or even mention anything to the kids. KUDOS to her. Most of us parents greatly appreciated it since there were many parents who voiced objections - our children are in KINDERGARTEN. I also checked with my son at the high school and he said they didn't play any speeches. I told him he was allowed to excuse himself from anything of that nature if he wasn't interested, and if the school told hjm he had to stay, he could tell them they were free to call me, because they wouldn't force him to if I came to take him out of class for the day. There ARE some parents who just want to send their kids to school to get them out of their hair. I was worried enough about my daughter being gone just 4 hours a day, EVERY day as opposed to 2 and a half hours a day, twice a week. So far things are fine because I'm at the school at least half of those 5 days, tutoring, helping, etc. The only problem I personally have with homeschooling is that I do not feel I'm qualified to teach as kids get older. I don't remember most of the things I learned in school that were state requirements, and I also grew up in a different state. I could homeschool IF it were an online homeschool program where I did not have to set up the lesson plans and teach and correct the work, just make sure the appropriate sections of each subject were covered for the week and the concepts marked for that week were learned, understood, and practiced so they could be tested on the following week. I would also enjoy secondary lessons - things related to the learning concepts that were real life tasks, not assignments. I would probably supplement with a lot of those. So far my daughter's school is wonderful and she has a great teacher and there is lots of socialization as well as excel so she is able to move ahead because she can. I think older kids who homeschool need to have a LOT of additional socialization opportunities, like maybe to take all their non-core academic courses AT a local high school, like all electives, PE, anything that might be hands-on like bio, chem, anatomy, or things that are geared toward a specific goal - like business courses or auto tech, nursing, psychology, something related to a field in which the student may major in when they graduate and head to college. As far as pulling your kids out when things are just going from bad to worse, some parents don't have a lot of choice. Some don't really notice or care but others are very proactive and very careful about what their kids get exposed to. I will likely be VERY careful about political agendas and make sure that any teachers my daughter has while she is in elementary school isn't going to be a nutjob and start foisting political things towards the kids. I do not feel this is acceptable, relevant, nor is it including in ANY state standard that I have examined, so it does NOT belong in public school education. [mommyboo]